"I wonder if there was any homosex between those two.". Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. Asking how points the way forward, and shows us what we must do. It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. I also agree with R7. Wayne & Kathy Harris Columbine shooter Eric Harris' Parents Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. You can criticize psychiatry without being a Scientologist. Then Oprah asked if they ever reached out to them or spoke to their parents - not one of them had done a thing. Sociopaths are born, but people who remain sociopaths as they age: either missed puberty; or had bad parents. It's up to me what I do with it. Some psychopaths are obsessed with money or power, but when you combine psychopathy with sadism, you get an Eric Harris. It would be comforting to think otherwise. When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. Sue Klebold broke down in tears as she remembered the funeral of her son Dylan. Were not qualified to sort this out. Ken Caryl Middle, where he met Dylan Klebold. The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. Dylan and Robyn had fun. I am with R14 and 15. WOuldn't one of the friends have felt him a little bit off, at the least? Bratty kids in Target are not mass murderers in the making. I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. Im looking for possible warning signs of trouble between these two individuals and their father-son relationship. [quote]Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? His point is that "society" didn't have too much of anything to do with how Harris turned out--he was born that way. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. Byron Klebold - The Everlasting Contrast A lot of psychiatry is and has always been about cheap quick labels, rather than an honest analysis of the society in which individuals live. Eric: "Susan, sorry. It was weird. But there isn't one thing. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. She has spent the last 15 years excavating every detail of her family life, and trying to understand the crucial intersection . Yesterday there was a girl in her backyard screaming like an insane person at somebody or something. Focus on the mental. Sue Klebold with son Dylan in 1985. Credit: Sue Klebold via Penguin/Random House Tall, slim and graceful (her younger son was a gangly 193 centimetres tall), she is given to direct eye contact . Do you think Dylans dad could embarrass him as a child in front of other people or humiliate him in other ways that could result in Dylans low self esteem or was Dylan naturally shy? They were not the mainstream group. Even still, he seemed happy and had a handful of close friends. The world was shocked and sickened on April 20, 1991, when crazed students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, slaughtered 12 students and one teacher at Colorado's Columbine High School. He overslept and missed a class and was sleeping when I got home. Kids do know about their frineds. I guess it's my generation. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris opened fire at the suburban Denver school on April 20, 1999, killing 13 people before taking their own lives. Dylan Klebold, along with his friend Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 23 others in April, 1999 in Columbine High School, before they turned their guns on . A Further Examination: Sue Klebold's case study of her son, Dylan Klebold. Both parents were gentle, educated people, who named their two boys after romantic poets x97 Dylan Thomas and Lord Byron x97 seemed to have given Dylan the message that so many of us recognize from our own childhoods: high school is hard, it will get better from here, wex92re here for you, we promise. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". The Columbine story was recently remade, with some editorial changes, as The Hottie and the Nottie starring Paris Hilton. I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. Eric said his father never asked whether the caller even had the right phone number. 18 year old son of Wayne Nelson Harris and Katherine (Kathy) Ann [Pool] Harris. Tom seemed to view Dylan as his best friend/soulmate, at least according to what Sue has told us. Or if they are, it's not because they're running amok in the store. From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. Klebold, S. (2016). However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently. And while his father was the epitome of the military asshole, having to deal with him only served to hone Eric's skills in fooling people. According to a report in the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office was supplied with evidence a year ago that "Eric . I wonder if there was any homosex between those two. In any case, teenagers can be quite unfair to their parents. . He was easy to raise, a pleasure to be with, a child who had always made us proud (Klebold, 2016, p. 61). Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. He's wearing black BDUs (military-style pants) tucked into military-style boots. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. Columbine High School Shooting: Victims & Killers - HISTORY "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". "They believe that what they call the "toxic culture" of the school the worship of jocks and the tolerance of bullying is the primary force that set Dylan off. Very,very sad but not surprising.The majority of parents who have lost a child end up splitting up.No matter how much they loved each other or how strong of a relationship they had before the tremendous strain and grief is often too much to endure. Children learn psychopathy from their parents (e.g., the Bushes). ", Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of. Friend of Columbine Killers Still Seeking Answers Susan Klebold Doesn't Believe God Is Watching Over Her Family Anymore Klebold attended the high . Murder Most Foolish | Psychology Today After the killing: How parents of attackers cope - BBC News They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. To develop coping skills. You're an idiot. When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." But perhaps he/she IS a charter member of the Reb&VoDKa fan club - and you're just going to IGNORE it? LITTLETON, Colo., April 24 - The parents of Dylan Klebold, one of the teenage shooters in the Columbine High School massacre, said goodbye to their dead son . What happened to them? Yet, despite a happy upbringing, Dylan still did what he did. His parents raised their two boys as many others did, following that close-knit, suburban family model (p. 62). For a couple reasons. Eric Harris - Biography - IMDb Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom' - New York Post We just share a brotherhood of admiration and belief in R &V. We sympathize with each other. He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. Making intentions known ahead of time? Here's what you need to know: 1. VOTN, I have Cullen's book but have not yet started it. Byron indicated the last time he saw Dylan was on their father's birthday. At the same time, the father must have believed that his son's future was still bright. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. Talking about the home video they took of that day, Its absolutely stunning how normal Dylan seems (p. 235). School shooters often show little attachment to their school. [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. Criminal behavior: a psychological approach. They weren't bullied, and they weren't outcasts; all of that came from the non-stop media echo chamber that followed the events. Dylan Bennet Klebold Born: 9-11-1981 6 feet 2.5 inches tall, 143 lbs. Klebold and Harris were in a juvenile diversion program for breaking into a van and stealing tools and other items in January 1998. "If a person was denying it, he would say, 'One of . Brookscolumn did not say when and where the interview took place. No scientist knows this absolutely. The school shooting took place on April 20, 1999 at . And society does not want to deal with real problems, so it easier to label people, and just forget about the whole thing. Was Tom there for him when he needed him? Reb". it was probably dylan just being a snarky and sardonic person if the relationship had ever crumbled, or a classic father/son conflict. See? That's not contrition, it's a final fuck you to the world. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. The people who run gifted programs are often special ed teachers who just got assigned that particular duty, and have the attitude that being smart is its own reward. It's far more complicated than a matter of discipline. But a new book, x93Columbine,x94 by Dave Cullen, reviews every bit of evidence about the shooting short of the parentsx92 firsthand accounts x97 25,000 pages of documents, including videotapes and journals of the killers x97 all of which point to the same chilling conclusion as the Carneal depositions: it is entirely possible for x93goodx94 parents to raise a murderer. VOTN, they used to think blood-letting and reading the bumps on people's head was science, too. 6. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Over time, they became increasingly close, hanging out by often going out bowling, carpooling and playing the video game Doom over a private server connected to their personal computers. It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. I have cousins who did shit like this - what was I supposed to do, call the cops and tell them to search their bedrooms because they might be crazy? They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). Hell, Klebold and a bunch of their friends went to the prom the weekend before the killings. Ten years after the Columbine killings, the Harris family has not spoken publicly at all, and the Klebold parents have given one interview, to the columnist David Brooks here at the New York Times. Dylan wrote an essay about a school shooting that disturbed his teacher enough that it was referred to the school counselor. Weren't they in a small group of rebellious kids? I wish the Harris and Klebold parents were rotting in prison right now as a lesson to parents that wash their hands of it and say "not my problem. End of story. Now, she spends her time advocating for suicide prevention and mental health services. Columbine Shooters Had Tense Moment Over Passover Remark, Mother ERIC AND DYLAN 4 LIFE! No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. ", Eric: (eventually) "That's it. 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There are a myriad of factors to consider. This is true. Everyone ones there to be one systemic cause, one thing that failed, to point to and say "there, that's why this happened." Mother of Columbine shooter reflects on that day, 19 years later Sure, that'll work! . Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. Harris was a sociopath. Jesus, what a loathsome pair of people. Apparently his meds caused an issue with a military enlistment, but wouldn't a caring parent sit down with their kid and figure out a Plan B? German-American restaurant owner: "You vill not be a mass murderer!" Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. ", "R77, there are people who don't have feelings.". Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. Born: 4-9-1981. The family subsequently moved to Littleton CO in 1993, and Wayne Harris took a job at FlightSafety Services in Englewood CO, a company rumored to work closely . Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. Paralyzed Columbine survivor to Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I have . Dylan Klebold's mother did an interesting TED talk, https://youtu.be "So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. Per the other Columbine thread, I'm in the midst of reading Dave Cullen's "Columbine." "Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit". Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. Funny how things cycle. I read a book about young doctors and they were discussing whether you can teach compassion. Parents are not automatically responsible for the behavior of their teenage children. R17, would you call yourself more of a Harris or more of a Klebold? Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. I got picked on a lot and dealt with a lot of shit from the "jocks" and the "cool kids." i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. I can't help it. I just don't get it. Too bad a pack of rabid Columbine mommies can't get together and make a punching bag out of her. Goodbye. The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. His father Wayne was a U.S. Air Force transport pilot . Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, walked into Columbine High School with shotguns, automatic weapons, and homemade pipe . I'm not a troll anonymous. We monitored what movies our boys could see, and put them to bed with stories and prayers and hugs (p. 61). In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . In the vacuum of actual news, they just start over again. IE 11 is not supported. Eric Harris And Dylan Klebold: The Story Behind The Columbine Shooters After college, the couple married and settled in the Denver area. I couldn't do that to my family and I admit that I would never have the guts. Klebold was depressed and fell under Harris's influence. Columbine School Shooting - HISTORY A 'Gentle Boy,' His Parents Told Investigators, Klebold Was Enrolled in an Elementary School Program for High Intellectual Potential Students. His father was a geophysicist and a mother worked with the disabled . VERIFY: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs? "How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy?". The Denver Post Online - Columbine Massacre These people do have emotions. His father, who had been in the military, was strict with Eric, and actions in that house had consequences. . Dylan: (predicting his parents' feelings of regret) "If only we could have reached them sooner, or found this tape. Wayne & Kathy Harris' son is widely seen as the . Thats Something that stands out about Dylan anyway, the Lack of Emotion regarding his parents. If there is a hell, they are there, burning. In this difficult, jarring talk, Klebold explores the intersection between mental health and violence . (21 at the time). Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, on April 9, 1981. Although in their rantings, they seemed to have special hatred for fags, and various other epithets for minorities that I don't even like to write, let alone speak. On April 20, 1999, when Sue Klebold heard about a shooting incident at Columbine High School, her thoughts immediately turned to her 17-year-old son, Dylan, who was a senior there. He and his partner Dylan Klebold were responsible for the Columbine High School massacre (1999). For happy, easy-to-raise, and successful kids like him, it was easy to fly under their parents radar precisely because they were the shiny pennies, hiding the terrible pain they were in from their parents as capably as they did everything else (p. 65). The Klebolds said their son was set off by the toxic culture of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris had openly admired Adolf Hitler. Sue Klebold. OP, I agree with you. "This was murder," he said. Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. Dylan kept talking about college, about his future. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. Teachers have no training in mental disorders or warning signs. One particular incident was uncovered where Dylan and Eric (the other shooter) were surrounded by a group, pushed around, called slurs, and had ketchup sprayed on them. Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . The Klebolds are DIVORCED - Portal I think we can value Sue's words more than Dylan's words in this one. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. The prom was the standard affair. Attention was paid. They do not have a moral center that can be reached. If I didn't know that I would have done the same. That's the first thing. It may have hurt him. . Guns and weapons? She and the father lectured him, took away . Adam killed 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary. That doesn't make them monsters. Nothing taken care of that I needed him to do (like take care of the cats). I worked as a dishwasher, then busboy then waiter in a German-American restaurant years ago when I was growing up. Yet later, he sees them more as zombiestrickier though andmore manipulative. But they confess that in the main, they have no explanation. What a twat. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. (talks about his mother being thoughtful, bringing him candy and Slim Jims) "I really am sorry about all this. FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives. Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylan's best friend. By David Brooks. With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. Or it's everything. Also when I was growing up, people had no qualms about calling a parent and saying "Your little boy Johnny said something really awful to my son today." or "Your little Janey slapped Susey today and she needs to stop doing that." Brooks Brown, now 31 years-old was a senior at Columbine during what was considered to be the worst school shooting in U.S. history. Columbine: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold''s Parents (2023) Opinion | Columbine: Parents Of a Killer - The New York Times Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. I cannot have my uzzer patrons being upset. ", Dylan: (sticks his face in the camera) "Goodbye. His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. Dylanx92s father worked from home and saw his son every day. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. Are Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris's parents to blame for the Columbine It is very difficult to assign causality in cases like this. I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. Can you imagine having one of those monsters as your brother? Wayne & Kathy Harris are the parents of infamous Columbine HS shooter, Eric Harris. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Dylan Klebold had been accepted by the University of Arizona and planned to attend this fall. They will live on forever !!!!!!!! x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. Columbine Shooter Had Jewish Roots Dreaded Passover Seder I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. His parents didnt understand the full extent of it, but high school wasnt turning out to be a kind place for him. Without advertising income, we can't keep making this site awesome for you. It would be satisfying to blame the parents. Indeed, R96. Eric Harris's father (Wayne Harris) was a former Air Force pilot stationed at Plattsburgh AFB in New York, rumored to be linked to covert operations such as mind control. Dylan: "Hey mom. Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? Very well said, r18. He was enrolled in a program for juvenile offenders run by the county court, he was taken to a psychiatrist and given both therapy and medication. Dylan adds that they can have his things as well. The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. however, in her book, sue shared a diary entry she wrote of an incident in the months before the massacre: 1/11/99 This long, hard day is over. Dylans parents were hands-on parents who limited the intake of television and sugary cereals. Theyd never seen his rage, nor ever felt scared of him. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. Just know I'm going to a better place. There was a creepy thread started by a sociopathic OP a couple of weeks ago where this was discussed. Columbine shooters had tense moment over Passover, mother says The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. Join date : 2014-02-11. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . Dylan Klebold was 17 when he and Harris,18, carried out their long-planned attack on the high school about 13 miles south of downtown Denver. It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit. When it came to intervention, these people had no idea what they should have been doing. But you also can't argue with success. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. "Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Ochberg said. ", Dylan: (interrupts) "We did what we had to do. . He was afraid Dylan might be involved. Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting. By. I go into Target and there are children shrieking like banshees in the shopping cart and the mother never says "Be quite. Eric David Harris - a Columbine site This was murder, he said. Forgiveness not needed, say Klebold's parents - NBC News My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. How they could live with themselves is beyond me. Or, as Eric himself said, quoting Shakespeare, in the farewell video he left for his parents: x93Good wombs have borne bad sons.x94. What kind of parent lets their kid have a swastika prominently displayed in their room (as just one of many, many signs that their offspring had problems)? Just three days before the shooting, he went to prom with a friend. After I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, I got e-mail from Tom Klebold, the father of Dylan Klebold, one of the . "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." so it seems that they had a pretty solid relationship from what has been released. There are several bags on the floor, including a large maroon one. [quote]He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger.
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